One of my own
personal ambitions when first discussing ideas for the Terrascope with Nick
and Cyke was to interview Paul Kantner, the visionary songwriter and in many
eyes the driving force behind the Jefferson Airplane, a man with wit,
intensity and insight and for my money one of only a handful of truly
original songwriters to have emerged from the San Francisco Bay area in the
mid/late 1960s.
More recently,
Kantner has - in addition to the Airplane reunions and flights on the
Starship - been working on studio demos for a projected album generally
known as 'The Women's Project'; five or six female vocalists that Kantner
"is in musical love with" including Ronnie Gilbert from the Weavers, Darby
Gould from World Entertainment War, Grace Slick, Signe Anderson and the
gospel singer Tramaine Hawkins from the Edwin Hawkins Singers (who appeared
on 'Sunfighter').
Kantner has also
been playing acoustic sets accompanied by former KBC Band members Tim Gorman
on keyboards and Slick (Mark) Aguilar on guitar, together billed as Paul
Kantner's Wooden Ships, shows which included renditions of classic Airplane
material such as 'When The Earth Moves Again', 'Crown of Creation' and
'Volunteers' as well as early Jefferson Starship pieces such as 'Caroline'
- love that one, indeed the whole 'Dragonfly' album is a personal favourite
- and even portions of 'Blows Against the Empire'. There was also talk of
the original cast of the
Kantner/Slick post-Airplane solo album 'Blows Against the Empire'
reuniting for a semi-theatrical 'spectacular' performance during '92
(including such names as Crosby, Nash, Garcia, Hart, Casady and of course
Slick); not sure what happened to that idea to be honest, as fascinating as
it sounds, and I must confess it was one of the questions that slipped
through the net when the PT finally got a chance to talk to Paul. Which
brings us in a roundabout fashion to the meat of this article, the Paul
Kantner Interview...
The interview
took place in a San Francisco coffee bar late last year; your host for the
occasion is Pat Thomas and the interview ran something like this:
PT: Can we talk
a little bit about your current work and how that ties in spiritually
with...
PK: Spiritually?
Spare me!
Well, I mean do
you see it as some sort of ongoing evolution from the Airplane? You're
playing a few of the old songs, right?
Oh yeah, the ones
I wrote anyway. There are a couple of exceptions, but they're pretty
oblique, kind of left-field. We do 'Law Man' for example, a song that Grace
wrote, and the Fred Neil tune 'The Other Side Of This Life'. We even do a
Weavers song, maybe even an Edith Piaf song. Anything is possible.
I take it you
didn't have much to do with putting together the boxed set of Airplane
material?
I had peripheral
input, I didn't get that involved with it because I didn't have the time. It
was quite mechanistically put together really; there was a whole lot of
other stuff that they could have added which I was pushing for - for example
the Airplane jamming with Stevie Wonder, Micky Hart and Jesse Jackson - that
was tasty! I may just steal the chords and write something new to it, or it
may come out some years later. Who knows?
Are there any
plans to do another set? That box only really goes up to about 1972.
Yeah, well that's
when the Airplane ended. There hasn't been any talk of a Starship box and I
haven't really thought about it - it would be pretty convoluted anyway,
there's so many different things to draw from.
What are your
plans for the new Starship?
We've been
building it all Summer, we're working on getting a recording deal now. I'm
not sure where or what we're going to do yet. There's a couple of options
we're exploring. I'm also doing 'Wooden Ships', and the women project;
that's a long-term project I have in my heart. It's just working with some
excellent women singers that I know, that I happen to be intersecting
circles with. From Ronnie Gilbert to Grace to Darby, who's singing with the
Starship now. It spans a pretty wide range; I've been talking to Signe as
well, and Tramaine Hawkins.
What kind of
material will you be playing, is this old traditional songs or what?
No, no - it'll be
all new stuff. It's not as if we'll be all together singing folk melodies or
anything. Part of it is several songs I'd intended for the Starship right
now. 'Serial Killer Women' works well, all about a woman serial killer of
the Republicans. Another is about a girl who just wants to be an outlaw and
another about a woman bank-robber. It's only got as far as recording demos
so far, nothing really serious.
How did the
Airplane reunion of a couple of years back come about? Who initiated it?
Who knows? It came
from several different quarters and everybody thinks they started it. So I
just let everybody else think they started it and go along with it thinking
I started it...(laughs), so we all sort of continued along on that level.
We'll probably do it again in a few years in some fashion or another.
Were you happy
with the album?
Hmmm.. B, maybe
B+. There were too many lawyers involved in front of it and that distracted
from it a lot.
I understand a
number of other studio musicians were brought in as well?
No, not on the
bulk of the real serious stuff. The producer couldn't quite handle us, but
it worked fairly well. I have high hopes for a better one next time.
The tour was
pretty successful though?
Oh, excellent,
yeah. The free shows in the parks were the best - we just did a series of
those at the end of this summer, here and in Central Park in New York, in
Philadelphia and in Los Angeles. Just sort of to introduce the band and let
people see they could play and that it wasn't just some kind of old reunion
thing, you know. I hate those, it's just boring.
So how did you
come to hear about Darby Gould?
China introduced
me to her, my daughter. She was singing with her band World Entertainment
War at the time, I went and checked them out and noticed her singing
straight away. I followed them around for a year, just enjoying it as a fan
really. Then they started crumbling a little as we were putting the Starship
together. I asked Darby to do a demo for the women's project I mentioned and
she was great, real studied, knew what she was doing and contributed stuff
way beyond my expectations. Which is what makes any good band a great band;
that's why the Airplane was so good, because all the people contributed
things that the writers would never have thought of doing. It doesn't always
work, but we always try. So Darby really contributed on that level and it
really worked out. She's very busy with her band Blind Tom, she's very
ambitious, she gets her shit together and she's also a pleasure to be with.
Most of the time. You know what I mean, we can all be assholes at times!
Do you still
listen to folk and other types of music?
I haven't been
listening to so much lately as I have been writing. I have a pile of things
I want to listen to but I just don't have the time to get to it... unless
I'm wanting to steal a chord change from somebody that I admire! I've been
into instrumental music - Peter Gabriel's 'Passion' record is quite
effective, I've been sort of absorbing things like that. Nothing that I've
heard on the radio lately has really sparked me, though.
What kind of
people aside from Fred Neil [who wrote 'Other Side Of This Life'] were you
into in the early 60s?
The Weavers, all
the early folk groups - even the commercial ones, some of them had some good
stuff to contribute. Also comedians and jazz. You could go and see John
Coltrane, Lenny Bruce, Peter, Paul & Mary and the Smothers Brothers all in
one night if you were ambitious. The Weavers were particularly instrumental
in my musical education though.
So when the
Airplane first came together it was more of a folk/pop thing?
I wouldn't use the
word 'pop' in there. It was electric folk music, a combination of elements
really. Folk was one of them, but everybody brought their own thing to it
which was different. That's one of the things that made it work; everybody
had a different idea of what they liked and did. There's an old comedy
record by Mel Brooks about the making of the Jewish star: six guys are in a
large room, each one of them has a point and they run towards each other and
meet in the middle of them room in a huge cloud of dust and confusion. And
the Airplane sort of formed in that fashion. None of us really knew what we
were doing or had a plan in those days, or a plan that worked anyway. But
going back to your question, yes: everybody brought their own elements into
the band and a lot of it was folk.
Similar to the
Byrds in a way then?
Yeah, they came
out of the same pot. The Byrds were the Los Angeles version and we were the
San Francisco version. A lot of people took it up, it was easy to do, it was
accessible and there was an open audience in those days. There was a vacuum
really, and it was easy to fall into that vacuum. And another of the things
that came out of the folk thing was the extrapolation of chord changes -
relative minors, passing minors, that sort of thing. Sometimes it got a
little too poppy with some of the groups, but nevertheless it worked for us.
It wasn't too blues based until Jorma got more visible.
Paul Kantner was
interviewed by Pat Thomas. Produced, written and directed
by Phil McMullen © Ptolemaic Terrascope, originally published in issue 15 1993.
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